那些用來調聲的配件真的有用嗎 ?

[kevintran]

在台灣還好，在美國（或許其它國家也是），實體店家越來越少，還活著的店家對客人的態度和客人的衣著成正比。

我現在買東西前都先看Stereophile（或是其它有作測量的雜誌／網誌），再讀評論。畢竟，在大多數情況下，我都沒法先試聽再買。這是我避免槓龜的辦法。

[hojuiyang111]

下面這一張圖看懂了，你就會了解到測試的意義了，但好聽不好聽就看人對聲音要求

的定義，有些人覺得人聲飽滿就是好聲音，有些就要音調平衡，但有沒有客觀的標準，

有，IASCA國際汽車音響競賽協會就有這樣的標準，

定義了音調的平衡度、音場、定位、線性等的聆聽標準。



我還記得很多人說量測曲線平不好聽，但卻說不所以然，不過這一張圖可以說明

這是一張將精密麥克風放入『真人耳』裡，與人耳一次進行測試，以人耳感受與

儀器量測在經過無數人的

測試後，所得到的結果，這等響曲線告訴我們，人耳在不同的音量上對低、中、高

頻有不同的感受特性，播放一個1k的90dBspl的訊號，20HZ就要到120dBSPL

人耳才會有與1khz一樣的感受，人聲的部份則只需要85dB、2k-6k，只需要80dBSPL

。

Stereophile會有量測數據就是避免一些無良的商人，搭配不良的雜誌或網路編輯

拿性能不足的器材就出來賣，聽起來也不好聽，在雜誌或網路上仍然可以說他非常

好聽的器材，你也當過編輯你應該也很清楚，很多讀者是跟著編輯買器材的，

而不是自己覺得好聽才買。

客觀數據，加上主觀聆聽(客觀基準)判斷才是評測、或是生產設計的良方不是嗎。

定義了音調的平衡度、音場、定位、線性等的聆聽標準?

它的定義內容為何呢?

[carsound]

定義了音調的平衡度、音場、定位、線性等的聆聽標準?

它的定義內容為何呢?

你可以自行前往IASCA網站加入會員，就可以下載其競賽規則書。

下面就是節錄音場的說明
8.2 - SOUND STAGE
A Sound Stage is the platform where the musical source originates from; it can be
quite large (orchestras) or quite small (room in a jazz club). The goal is to reproduce
that sound stage as accurately and realistically as possible so that it seems to
exceed the physical boundaries of the vehicle interior.
A sound stage is broken down into five factors:
 Listening Position - The position of the sound stage relative to the listener
and the apparent distance of the sound stage from the listener.
 Stage Width - How wide the stage is from its furthest point to the left to its
furthest point to the right
 Stage Height - How tall the stage is from the floor of the stage to its highest
point
 Stage Depth - How deep the stage is from its furthest point forward to its
furthest point back
 Ambience - The sense of space naturally created by the music and the size of
the stage
In Sound Stage judging, the Judge will evaluate how well the vehicle‘s sound system
is able to recreate the sound stage and ambient content of the source material being
played. The ideal car audio system sound stage will create the illusion that the sound
is originating in front of the listener, with additional ambient content. While evaluating
Sound Stage, the Judge will draw maps describing the sound stage boundaries for
each seat. These maps will not only help in evaluating the sound stage elements,
but will be vital to the evaluation of imaging.
The Judge will not let any visual cues (apparent speaker locations or lack of them,
for instance) influence their judgment. Sound Quality Judges have been trained to be
―blind‖ to any equipment in the vehicle or any distractions that interfere with their
ability to properly determine the sound stage.
Tonal Accuracy Scoring Scale
Perfect 20 points
Exceptional 16 - 19 points
Very Good 12 - 15 points
Good 8 - 11 points
Marginal 2 - 7 points
Needs Improvement 1 point
NO Zero Scores are Given
34
LISTENING POSITION 1 to 15 points
The best systems will give the illusion of the stage being well in front of the listener,
exceeding the front boundary of the vehicle. This is considered ideal as it
approximates the experience of listening to a live concert.
The Judge will base scoring on the distance between themselves and the perceived
front boundary of the sound stage.
Listen carefully to the bass. Does it seem to come from up front or from behind?
Maximum points within each scoring tier will only be given to systems that
convincingly create the illusion that all the sound originates from the specified
location.
Some systems will exhibit some localization of sub bass towards the rear, but still
maintain a forward listening position. Judges should not drop these vehicles to the
―behind the listening position‖ scoring tier.
In this situation, a Judge should deduct 2 points for obvious rear-bass within the
scoring tier established by the higher frequencies (mid-bass and up) and make note
of that action on the score sheet. In no case should a vehicle be dropped to a lower
tier for rear sub bass only.
These are general guidelines for scoring. Keep in mind that if a vehicle exhibits
different characteristics for each seat in two seat judging, the Judges are instructed
to arrive at a score for each seat and then average them to arrive at a final score.

[hojuiyang111]

你可以自行前往IASCA網站加入會員，就可以下載其競賽規則書。

下面就是節錄音場的說明
8.2 - SOUND STAGE
A Sound Stage is the platform where the musical source originates from; it can be
quite large (orchestras) or quite small (room in a jazz club). The goal is to reproduce
that sound stage as accurately and realistically as possible so that it seems to
exceed the physical boundaries of the vehicle interior.
A sound stage is broken down into five factors:
 Listening Position - The position of the sound stage relative to the listener
and the apparent distance of the sound stage from the listener.
 Stage Width - How wide the stage is from its furthest point to the left to its
furthest point to the right
 Stage Height - How tall the stage is from the floor of the stage to its highest
point
 Stage Depth - How deep the stage is from its furthest point forward to its
furthest point back
 Ambience - The sense of space naturally created by the music and the size of
the stage
In Sound Stage judging, the Judge will evaluate how well the vehicle‘s sound system
is able to recreate the sound stage and ambient content of the source material being
played. The ideal car audio system sound stage will create the illusion that the sound
is originating in front of the listener, with additional ambient content. While evaluating
Sound Stage, the Judge will draw maps describing the sound stage boundaries for
each seat. These maps will not only help in evaluating the sound stage elements,
but will be vital to the evaluation of imaging.
The Judge will not let any visual cues (apparent speaker locations or lack of them,
for instance) influence their judgment. Sound Quality Judges have been trained to be
―blind‖ to any equipment in the vehicle or any distractions that interfere with their
ability to properly determine the sound stage.
Tonal Accuracy Scoring Scale
Perfect 20 points
Exceptional 16 - 19 points
Very Good 12 - 15 points
Good 8 - 11 points
Marginal 2 - 7 points
Needs Improvement 1 point
NO Zero Scores are Given
34
LISTENING POSITION 1 to 15 points
The best systems will give the illusion of the stage being well in front of the listener,
exceeding the front boundary of the vehicle. This is considered ideal as it
approximates the experience of listening to a live concert.
The Judge will base scoring on the distance between themselves and the perceived
front boundary of the sound stage.
Listen carefully to the bass. Does it seem to come from up front or from behind?
Maximum points within each scoring tier will only be given to systems that
convincingly create the illusion that all the sound originates from the specified
location.
Some systems will exhibit some localization of sub bass towards the rear, but still
maintain a forward listening position. Judges should not drop these vehicles to the
―behind the listening position‖ scoring tier.
In this situation, a Judge should deduct 2 points for obvious rear-bass within the
scoring tier established by the higher frequencies (mid-bass and up) and make note
of that action on the score sheet. In no case should a vehicle be dropped to a lower
tier for rear sub bass only.
These are general guidelines for scoring. Keep in mind that if a vehicle exhibits
different characteristics for each seat in two seat judging, the Judges are instructed
to arrive at a score for each seat and then average them to arrive at a final score.

不過這也都是主觀的標準,

和發燒友的描述差别並不大.

[chanc95]

謝謝您的分享
照這等響曲線看來
中低頻100Hz得多加些
而高頻5KHz就得衰減些
在人耳聽到的才會響度相同
小弟在調整音響觀察頻譜的經驗很類似
個人喜好也是低頻多需而高頻適度衰減
不知其他先進的觀查為何?
望不吝分享
謝謝

下面這一張圖看懂了，你就會了解到測試的意義了，但好聽不好聽就看人對聲音要求

的定義，有些人覺得人聲飽滿就是好聲音，有些就要音調平衡，但有沒有客觀的標準，

有，IASCA國際汽車音響競賽協會就有這樣的標準，

定義了音調的平衡度、音場、定位、線性等的聆聽標準。



我還記得很多人說量測曲線平不好聽，但卻說不所以然，不過這一張圖可以說明

這是一張將精密麥克風放入『真人耳』裡，與人耳一次進行測試，以人耳感受與

儀器量測在經過無數人的

測試後，所得到的結果，這等響曲線告訴我們，人耳在不同的音量上對低、中、高

頻有不同的感受特性，播放一個1k的90dBspl的訊號，20HZ就要到120dBSPL

人耳才會有與1khz一樣的感受，人聲的部份則只需要85dB、2k-6k，只需要80dBSPL

。

Stereophile會有量測數據就是避免一些無良的商人，搭配不良的雜誌或網路編輯

拿性能不足的器材就出來賣，聽起來也不好聽，在雜誌或網路上仍然可以說他非常

好聽的器材，你也當過編輯你應該也很清楚，很多讀者是跟著編輯買器材的，

而不是自己覺得好聽才買。

客觀數據，加上主觀聆聽(客觀基準)判斷才是評測、或是生產設計的良方不是嗎。

[carsound]

不過這也都是主觀的標準,

和發燒友的描述差别並不大.

是不大沒錯，但有一個清楚定義，要不然，有人說某某音響音場有多廣，

問題來了，是有多寬，深度很深是有多深，另外測試訊號也是特別挑選的

錄音的環境、樂器相關的搭配都在競賽手冊裡有說明，就有點像陳國修那片

極品測試碟的意思，也給了分數的定義，有了這定義就可以主(客)觀的方式

來評價音響聆聽時的好壞了。

[hojuiyang111]

是不大沒錯，但有一個清楚定義，要不然，有人說某某音響音場有多廣，

問題來了，是有多寬，深度很深是有多深，另外測試訊號也是特別挑選的

錄音的環境、樂器相關的搭配都在競賽手冊裡有說明，就有點像陳國修那片

極品測試碟的意思，也給了分數的定義，有了這定義就可以主(客)觀的方式

來評價音響聆聽時的好壞了。

我的經驗,

相同一套系統,

每個人的深度描述可能會不同.

所以可能 judge 需要受一定的訓練計劃.



這也說明:

sound stage 很重要.

發燒友並非沒有注意到 sound stage,

發燒友並非不客觀的亂玩,

此文只有sound stage,沒提到 sound field .

[carsound]

我的經驗,

相同一套系統,

每個人的深度描述可能會不同.

所以可能 judge 需要受一定的訓練計劃.



這也說明:

sound stage 很重要.

發燒友並非沒有注意到 sound stage,

發燒友並非不客觀的亂玩,

此文只有sound stage,沒提到 sound field .

感覺你真的蠻想跟別人辯論的，也對，你是有參加電台的節目!有一定的權威性。

但你好像沒有看到節錄這兩個字，還有我其它的說明，競賽規則書有168頁內容，

我只節錄一頁而已。

另外，並沒有人說發燒友沒有注意到Sound Stage，也沒有人說發燒友並不客觀

的亂玩喔!!

[hojuiyang111]

感覺你真的蠻想跟別人辯論的，也對，你是有參加電台的節目!有一定的權威性。

但你好像沒有看到節錄這兩個字，還有我其它的說明，競賽規則書有168頁內容，

我只節錄一頁而已。

另外，並沒有人說發燒友沒有注意到Sound Stage，也沒有人說發燒友並不客觀

的亂玩喔!!

沒有蠻想跟別人辯論,

不回話提出不同的看法,

那來的趣味和人氣..:P



電台的節目是公務,無關音響..:)


並沒有人說發燒友沒有注意到Sound Stage，也沒有人說發燒友並不客觀

的亂玩喔

對不起, 這句話不是對您說的..

[coke]

下面這一張圖看懂了，你就會了解到測試的意義了



我還記得很多人說量測曲線平不好聽，但卻說不所以然，不過這一張圖可以說明

此言大差矣 :(
請勿把人類等響度曲線跟音響的頻率響應曲線混為一談!

難道你會跟鋼琴家說 : 抱歉 人類的耳朵在低頻需要較大的音壓 請"用力彈低音"?!

聽樂器實際演奏跟聽音響 都是用同一副耳朵!!
只要音響放出來的越接近錄進去的(假設錄得好的話)
那人耳聽到的當然也就越接近原音!

天底下沒有聽實際樂器時內建等化器失效 聽音響時內建等化器又復活的事.