音響室於今年底可裝潢完成，目前器材大致選購完成只剩USB-DAC，因預算問題請各位大大推薦20W以下USB-DAC。
目前選擇器材有
MAC MINI +外接硬碟
前後級=GRYPHON
喇叭=ROCKPORT AVIOR
喜歡聽古典音樂與人聲，煩請各位先進推薦，感恩。*29
可列印查看
音響室於今年底可裝潢完成，目前器材大致選購完成只剩USB-DAC，因預算問題請各位大大推薦20W以下USB-DAC。
目前選擇器材有
MAC MINI +外接硬碟
前後級=GRYPHON
喇叭=ROCKPORT AVIOR
喜歡聽古典音樂與人聲，煩請各位先進推薦，感恩。*29
如果您喜愛古典音樂與人聲
推薦可以試看看Rosita Beta
而且若已經擁有mac系統了~使用起來會更方便好聲!!
https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.n...58505361_o.jpg
http://www.my-hiend.com/vbb/showthread.php?6254
這期季刊有相當詳細的介紹!
Rosita Beta聲音真的不錯，建議試聽看看
但是它不是用USB接...
在下之前也有Study了好一陣子DAC，
20萬以下的推薦的還有Berkeley Audio Design Alpha DAC，但是它也沒有USB
要再另購一個Berkeley 自己出的USB DDC，加一加可能也接近20w了
或是配便宜的USB DDC
除此之外還有
PS Audio PerfectWave DAC
左上方的小藍USB-DAC ~很好聽的
德國原裝進口
AcousticPlan DigiMaster 與 Orpheus DAC-1
http://www.my-hiend.com/vbb/attachme...4&d=1353582067
價位在20W左右, 以下, 或超過一點點, 我有聽過覺得不錯的選擇.....
1. Weiss 202
2. Playback MPD-3
以上兩者應該稍微超過20W
3. Rosita Beta
4. Ayre QB-9
這兩款應該買完還有找(不少)
最後沒聽過, 但直覺會不錯, 應該也跟樓主的系統頗搭的
5. Meitner ma-1
當然如果不是樓主須要USB的話, 我全心推薦
6. Lavry DA924.........
好貨真多....................
*16
麻煩請推薦一下，感恩。
引用:
作者: 小葉
我同意chsiang說的~~~~~~~~~~``
Meitner +1 同代理商的產品，搭配應該會有加乘效應
http://www.audio-components.de/seite...%202012-08.pdf
德國專業雜誌的評論...在192/96/44.1分別拿下70/69/68的高分。70分是滿分
如果要找現在正紅的ESS 9018
推薦resonessence invicta
http://resonessencelabs.com/
USB以外也有很多選擇，PS Audio PWD MKII (也支援LAN播放)或是無線的Rosita
AcousticPlan DigiMaster
推這台嚕
現役機器
印象以前有個很像的討論?
結論也差不多是版上說這幾個
總之能的話盡量聽看看
答案應該會在這幾台當中我猜
都是不錯的DAC
引用:
作者: 音逸音響
official respondse...引用:
作者: 小葉
沒誠意~~~引用:
作者: Musk
*04
這台會在二十萬附近嗎 那我一定要試聽了啦(devil)引用:
作者: chsiang
應該是超過了, 但是我發現買音響只怕找不到好聲音, 好聲音找到了, 預算通常就會自己跑出來了.......引用:
作者: yk42b2001
如果不需要USB等方便介面的話, Lavry DA924真的是一台絕對表現少有敵手, 又十分超值的機器!!!
引用:
作者: Musk
我只能說優秀的機器很多, 但是真正能讓你感動得卻沒有幾台引用:
作者: 小余
優秀與價位無關, 感動更與價位無關
好東西一定不便宜, 但是貴的不一定好
建議千萬不要被 DAC 上的 USB 或 1394 綁死.....(angel) 因為這種東西像電腦三C一樣，不斷地進步，沒幾年就嚴重過時了。引用:
作者: chsiang
所以就像 chsiang 想表達的一樣，先選定 DAC。選好想要的DAC後，USB界面選擇電腦級的產品就非常非常夠用啦！
不過 USB 界面非常難搞，聲音往往『遠遠不如』CD轉盤，除非喜歡玩電腦而懂得使用CAT進行USB播放。除非迷上玩電腦，否則真的非常不建議玩 USB界面。一般來說，如果DAC內建的USB是直接播上電腦使用ITUNES或FOOBAR播放，那麼二十萬元級的DAC大概只剩下不到兩萬元等級的聲音。
目前最適合『完全懶得搞電腦』的數位流界面我個人認為是使用 AIRPLAY 的 La Rosita 或 MICROMEGA WM10，但是這也意謂著如果不喜歡它們的聲音，就沒有第二選擇了。但是選擇這個界面，反而不適合電腦高手玩，因為規格太封閉，很難以電腦軟體或硬體加以提升，除非直接對AIRPORT 進行改裝。
新手對這方面不了解請包涵。請教如dac使用Lavry DA924 有辦法接上 mac mini或 Lavry DA924要連接何種訊源?
引用:
作者: psycho
還是 SPDIF 介面好, 看來在stereo系統上再用個幾十年也不需要再進步, 還不會被燒友嫌過時...... (giggle)引用:
作者: psycho
就我了解的 mac mini上的耳機孔除了耳機輸出之外同時也是一個spdif的數位埠, 而Lavry DA924上有同軸輸入可用,引用:
作者: bmw330ci
不過有3.5mm的耳機接頭的數位線我是沒看過有正規的, 可能要請人改吧!?
買台dd就好.............很多可選
high end 永遠先考量好聲音先
DA924 input只有AES/EBU 跟同軸
您如果用mac mini要接的話有以下幾種方法
一千以下:
用Mac Mini的光纖轉同軸 (700元解決，PCHome有賣)，音質不知
5千以下:
USB轉同軸DDC方案(要有Mac driver):
M2Teck HiFace
M2Teck HiFace EVO
阿仁做的XMOS USB DDC
6萬以下:
Berkeley Audio Design Alpha USB 非同步介面
http://www.my-hiend.com/vbb/showthre...BB%8B%E9%9D%A2
Firewire 轉AES/EBU : Weiss INT 202 (約5-6萬)
引用:
作者: bmw330ci
請別客氣！大家都是一起分享交流來的.....:D :D引用:
作者: bmw330ci
問題有兩個層次：
第一：你對電腦熟不熟？願不願意花很多時間玩電腦？會不會安裝MAC OS與電腦硬體的驅動程式？OK，這才是玩數位流的基礎。當然，如果身邊有超級好友可以隨時義務幫忙，這個標準也算過了。
第二；我們把DAC之前的『播放器』一律稱為『數位播放器』，有CDP 、DVD、藍光機的數位輸出，也有電腦的數位輸出，OK？
關鍵觀念：二十萬這一級的音響器材，數位輸出比DAC還要重要太多太多！！
電腦本身內建數位輸出，那是最爛最爛的數位輸出，二十萬的DAC可能只剩五千元。
接USB音效裝置，簡稱 USB DDC，這是本站資源與討論最豐富的，有可能是最頂尖的....(blush) 但是，很麻煩。
接內建音效卡，太麻煩了先丟一邊 <== 不覺得麻煩的話，可以請教隔壁站P900與drkao的討論串。
接 airport，什麼都不管，會使用無線網路就好了。
問題就在於，以上的東東，如果只是隨便找一台電腦再簡單安裝上去，除了 airport外，大概都會浪費二十萬元。
大致上暸解了，感謝。%332++
digital to digital converter
很多usb 轉 spdif 產品
digital to digital converter
很多usb 轉 spdif 產品
La Rosita的無線方案真的是比USB的solution要容易出好聲，USB要好聽要花很多心力
我看國外無線DAC的討論是Rostia beta的音質比Mircromega WM10要更令人印象深刻
不好意思..想請教一下, 無線DAC 如 Rosita ...比USB DAC 容易好聲的依據跟理論為何呢?.....謝謝
引述 Rosita 老闆的說法如下引用:
作者: kaijencheng
In fact many equipment data sheet show that a lot of machines and other USB DAC type can 24/192 reproduce through an USB connection, Ethernet or Firewire. See advertising ....
WARNING! let us not take for donkeys as the "jitter" ultra low which was supposed to guarantees the quality of a DAC.....
About you to connect your computer to a HD DAC you MUST KEEP in mind the principle that "digital noise floor of your computer" can't be over passed.
24bit/96kHz is a dynamic of 146 dB or a noise level of -146dB !
Computers are unable to, (far from it), work with a lower digital noise that 90dB. that's what looking for people who use measuring instruments based on computer motherboards. The motherboard can not do it because of the noisy power supplies necessary to computers. (High Frequency power supply)
The absolute record is close to (-140dB) and is achieved by using oscilloscopes motherboards specially dedicated. (Eg: LeCroy) We are equipped.
As also distributors of Audiomatica CLIO measurement system, we face the problem regularly. http://www.audiomatica.com/europe.htm
A link RJ45, USB 2.0, FireWire put unfortunately the computer and the DAC at the same ground potential (bonding modes common) and even though the guts of the machine could do digital audio only TRUE WIRELESS happen to reproduce levels of "digital noise" so low because the connection has no physical contact with the computer. It'easy to make a 24bit 192 kHz USB DAC, look..... http://cgi.ebay.fr/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300591940169&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649
We remain very committed to wireless because it is in our opinion, the ONLY current solution to meet at least the -96 dB of the CD! what is already an achievement ...
to the wise ....
friendly yours Dan Bellity
我不知La Rosita的無線方案傳輸方式跟SQUEEZEXBOX的WIFI傳輸有無不同
以前用TOUCH，只要使用微波爐，WIFI就會被中斷，導致BUFFER傳輸不及音樂播放中斷
，有時也會小LGA但不常出現(我也不知是電腦還是軟體問題哪的問題)，用WIFI感覺蠻容易受干擾的
後來我就不用TOUCH當轉盤了，直接買只有USB輸入的QB9，，加個獨立供電USB HUB(這個影響最大好很多)
不同的電腦播放軟體聲音，聲音還是聽的出有些不同，PC端還是有些變數的
但以中階來說，差距還不算天差地遠，不過QB9只有USB輸入的設計我覺得蠻"賤"的
因為讓你完全沒有辦法比較不同數位輸入的差別。
我覺得Psycho 建議走Airport 的方案比較單純又容易得到好聲
（除非樓主 之後有 “ㄇㄨˋ” 一堆東西的心裡準備）
建議可以去聽聽看 Micromega Aria airdream 非常好聽(devil)
挺令人驚訝的，跟 wm-10 有很不一樣的聲音表現
La Rosita 可以去心曲音響聽， Micromega 可以在隔幾條街的楚培樂坊那聽
聽完還可順道在美術館附近走走吃飯～
去樂沐吃飯，到retro 喝杯咖啡，到勤美誠品逛逛 。
很享受的一天:D
這次台中音響展我有展出 Rosita Pi 唷！
http://www.my-hiend.com/vbb/attachme...7&d=1353684466
其實我覺得理論歸理論~~~實測有個基準最能信服聽眾~~~引用:
作者: kaijencheng
我常常在客人家是這樣測試的，
由於拚比DAC的聲音是無法比較出傳輸方式所造成的聲音好壞，
所以我都用Rosita Beta或是 Pi 的 同軸數位輸出，再去接到一台"具有同軸and USB數位輸入的DAC"
一次用USB介面播放，一次用AirPlay播放，馬上可以聽出差異! (真正解碼都是同一台DAC)
超低的數位底噪，絕對可以信服所有的耳朵....
*41
http://www.larosita.fr/Rosita-2013/P..._concepts.html
La Rosita
Explanation About la Rosita
La Rosita is Wireless Musical Player that connects straight to your Hi-Fi. NO MORE CABLE!
You control your music and iTunes without moving.
The music is stored on your computer after ripping. No data are missing, everything is there. As all the conversion from digital to analog happens it one chips, there is no jitter.
WHAT ARE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ALL ROSITA’S MODELS:
DIGITAL NOISE FLOOR / you never miss anything anymore!
One difference between the Rositas is the ‘’ Digital Noise Floor ’’. You need to consider it as border that signals, will never be able to cross.
How lower is your digital noise floor, how better you will hear the details of music. La Rosita is extremely low. It brings out the micro-details that result in softness and warmth.
A digital noise floor is not a stable line. It is constantly changing up and down like the sea level. That is why it is important to have it at the lowest level as possible. This way, more details, nuances, fineness and subtleties of the music will be available. The average CD-Player will have a digital Noise floor of -70 to -80 db. You miss 20% of the possibilities of the CD recording. The best CD-player ever produced in the world was -93dB. You still miss something. The Beta New will have -102 dB and the Pi, more than -105dB.
With LA-ROSITA you never miss anything anymore!
NUMBER OF CONTROL IN POWER SUPPLY
Another difference between Rositas is the level of control of the power supply.
The Beta New has 2, The Omega has 3 and the Pi has 4. More control of the power supply will translate in more softness, more energy, more responses. This means all the sound will pass with all the energy they really need.
In term of music, especially on piano and violin, you will hear the attack of the musical note very sharp at it is and note softened.
INSTANT FULL ENERGY SUPPLY (IFE®)
A patented power supply, IFE® type (Instant Full Energy®), capable of producing unlimitedenergy without inertia. We could compare it to a car that will never have to switch gear to change speed. At any time he will have enough power to reach any speed needed effortlessly.
Another image will be a sport man without short of breath whatever the condition or the field in which he is running. The Pi has the IFE and the Beta has a lighter version of it.
THE PI, THE ULTIMATE VERSION.
The Pi was made with one idea in mind: no compromise and put the price issue on the side. The PI uses not only the best components, but all components are matching with the other and chosen in matching pairs. Every single component is tested and measured one by one to find its perfect pair. Everything was build to make sure we reach the best level possible in sound reproduction ever matched before.
In addition, a deeper work on all the output stages and a unique treatment called DFTA® (Direct Frame To Analog). This devise give the ability to the PI to adapt, fit itself to the next level, the PRE-AMPLIFIER and AMPLIFIER it is connected to. It analyzes the charge of the next devise and it put itself at the same level. In other words, it puts itself in the best condition for amplifier to work in total harmony with it.
There are some more difference between the 3 Rosita:
a) Beta, Omega and Pi have a digital output so that you could use it with your own DAC ( Digital to Analog Converter) if you like. Pi only, has 2 kind of digital output available, SPDIF Single ended 75 ohms, and AES/EBU 110 ohms .
b) Pi has a XLR analog output. It is an option for the BETA and for the OMEGA.
OTHER THING ABOUT LA-ROSITA
La Rosita is the achievement of 8 years of research and tests; and 35 years of audio experience and music passion.
All Rosita have no jitter. No Jitter means, the music is never tired, it come straight to your brain, you can listen for hours and hours, you will never again want to change the volume level or switch to another music.
La Rosita has been conceived to respect the TEMPO of the music.
When we proceed from Analogical to Digital, it was a great step forward for audio but also a step backward for the music reproduction.
The reason for this. ALL digital devises need a time base (Oscillators) to rebuild sound from digital file. The music itself is built on time base, which is the cadency, the tempo. When you put two time bases over each other, inevitably you degrade (Lower) one of them. The one of the electrical circuits cannot be altered otherwise you take the risk that the devise will not work. So, it is the tempo of the music that will be damaged. LaRosita has succeeded to avoid this dilemma and there is no more compromise. It respects the tempo of the music. This one reason the music sound so fluid and pass with ease.
Another advantage of la Rosita. Simple is more functional.
Today, we now know that a clock signal will undergo more temporal strain (distortion) on a circuit path of 30 cm than an analog signal would be over 30m !
So, the idea was to reduce the digital signal path length so that it will never be distorted. The only solution was to move from digital information to analog information without leaving a single and same processor. All the Analog Digital conversion happens in a single chips the size of a 1€ coins.
In a traditional setting of digital reading and digital to analog conversion, the multiplication of transport and transformations that signals have to pass trough cause degradation of the musicality.
In LA ROSITA, the information is translated from a state of raw network data to a state of musical signal in a SINGLE component!!! The incredible reduction of the path of the digital signal is essential in the preservation of the musicality and to avoid any jitter issue. In addition there are no loss of insertion (passing from components to another). Everything happens in a unique and single component, the size of a 1€ coin!)
Similarly, as the signals (digital and analog) do not pass through long paths, they are not tainted with losses by insertion (#1) or by jitter and distortions
(#1) At the junction of the welding there are losses. The welding of the metals together creates this problem. And different metals give different color to the music. Since all is one chips, there are no more losses by ‘’ insertion’’, you don’t have two metal mixed with a third one. You have a real electro fusion. This is a fundamental advantage. LA ROSITA is totally neutral and don’t add any color to the music. What you get is what was recorded. One reason why the Pi is the choise of some Studio Recording to play their music.
In comparing A / B source, the more neutral and more true unit still appears to be more dull because it does not include any artifice (contrivance) but eventually, when listening the ROSITA for full music pieces, the desire to switch, to lower the volume or simply to change the CD does not exist anymore.
To fully appreciate a Rosita, you just have to listen and only listen to music that carries emotion to be able to recognize its high musical qualities.
There's nothing like La Rosita in its ability to capture and to relay emotion, melody, the musical flow and its fluidity. This is probably the first time that we found with a digital devise the accents of both the analog and the vinyl This because of our proprietary Algorithm for DtoA reconstruction based on Lagrange Transform and done by a very advanced DSP system.
Once you have a ROSITA, you just enjoy the music for the music and you have the right devise to reproduce music as its was recorded
http://www.larosita.fr/Rosita-2013/P...apeimage_1.png
As you can see here is our new moulded V3 module.
(left picture) Composed of 2 multilayers circuits boards (Right picture). On the top (black) Airplay bridge original Apple® for best compatibility with iTunes® and just below, our own DSP board (green) linked to the Apple’s® bridge including our own DSP engine and our exclusive D to A Algorithm based on Lagrange transforms (Tempo®). On the same board, our original BioClock® and our IFE® ful linear power suply for all various DC voltages needed.
All Rosita’s streamers models use this module with various levels of Algorithm based on Lagrange transforms, BioClock®, IFE® power suply and our Activ/Passiv A Class single ended output stage called DFTA® (Direct Frame To Analog). ( an Iron Hand in a Velvet Glove)
All firmware upgrades can be done at any time.
Hardware evolutions, are simply done by moulded module replacement!
電腦的USB口接DAC的確是不如同等價位的CDP的，電腦的USB口基本問題，干，硬，冷，薄，音場平面化
我是玩耳機的，我現在是MAC MINI AMARRA+AP1+CHORD 64MK2，AP1這個界面還不錯，
可能用Airport 或者WIFI等方法比較容易得到理想的效果，向各位大大學習
最近拿下QB9 DSD版，深深被打動。
AQUA La Scala MKII 這台不錯喔~
性價比高 20W~30W內 無可匹敵
如果能解DSD的模組能快點出，那才真的無敵，目前殘念中。
引用:
作者: wen2014