這就是我說的，明明很簡單，卻想的如此複雜
基本上一套系統一開始測量調整完後，的確是不用常常再測，除非有更動的時候或發現不對勁的時候
平常的聲音大部份是細微的調整
可列印查看
這就是我說的，明明很簡單，卻想的如此複雜
基本上一套系統一開始測量調整完後，的確是不用常常再測，除非有更動的時候或發現不對勁的時候
平常的聲音大部份是細微的調整
很多發燒友的系統是未經過任何測量程序的........
引用:
作者: 小葉
問題太大會好聽嗎?:^)|-)|(|-:D
呵...........不會好聽，但主人會自認為好聽
因為問題出在...........呵呵呵.....
你管人這麼多.........這樣做完........聲音怎麼樣誰知道........
大家不就在講這個，依照測量結果做出調整又能有什麼保證.................
反正音響放在家中......我的觀念.....絕對的正確就絕對是錯誤
唯有很多樣....
為喇叭找個適當大小的空間或為空間找個適當大小的喇叭是求好聲的黃金定律，不二前提
空間材質必須堅固，抵擋共振及能量，不三前提
電源，不四前提
隔音，不五前提
其他的有做有加分，沒做以後想做再做
引用:
作者: 小葉
保證不會犯了不應該犯的錯
這樣的基礎下去調整出來會比較有機會得到真正正確的High End之聲 :*
引用:
作者: AndyChu
我問一個跟你比較有關的問題
如果錄音是正向，你在聆聽位測得整體相位是反相.........這樣是對還是不對
這樣也可能很好聽沒錯呀.....主人愛的很
再舉chanc95的例子
聲音聽起來就是怪怪地
經過測試後，發現喇叭其中一顆單體反向
如果沒有測量檢視，我看有那個高手可以調回來
對阿，所以這是買東西回來有沒有故障的問題啊
引用:
作者: 小葉
我的相位一定亂，不過聆聽位整體還是正向阿......怎麼跟我有關
不然你來幫我測一下.....我也很久沒測了
引用:
作者: 小葉
你這樣說是沒錯啦:o:o:o
引用:
作者: 小葉
沒問題啦
先比看看長度..........:D
引用:
作者: AndyChu
波形有相位，聲音真的有相位嗎？引用:
作者: 小葉
敲一個三角鐵，從正面敲與從背面敲，都會發出一樣的聲音。
同樣的，單體往內移動還是往外移動，如果是正確而完美的活塞運動，也會發出一樣的聲音。
只要不是「只有一邊反相」這種錯誤就好了。
音響重播的是錄音， 當然有相位
聲音是人耳感受到空氣壓縮的改變，是一種疏密波。麥克風收到的，跟耳膜收到的東西是一樣的，疏密波。同理，錄音軟體中最常看到、用到的波形也是疏密波，在疏密波中，反相一百八十度，波形並不會改變。引用:
作者: 小葉
最後，喇叭怎麼發聲的？也是產生空氣壓縮改變讓人耳感受到。不管振膜凹下還是突出，它一樣會在空氣中產生震動發出聲音。
因此系統整體的零與一百八十度反相，理論上是不會有差異的。早期CD唱盤或DAC還會有人放相位切換鍵，現在則很少看到這種按鈕（因為聽起來真的沒差，何必多花成本作一個按鍵？）。實驗花不了五分鐘，把喇叭線左右兩邊紅黑一起對調，那就是反相，可以聽看看能不能聽出差異？我自己的經驗是沒有差異。當然如果有人覺得有很大的差異，我也尊重之。
第二軌的Bass演奏示範的是「in phase」與「out of phase」，也就是兩邊相位一致，與左右兩邊相位相反的效果。引用:
作者: 小葉
如果左右兩邊都是反相180度（non-inverted與inverted），那聽起來是沒有差異的。
這樣一看，的確比我想像的較為複雜，我承認我原本簡單的認知是錯的
相位 or 相位差是更重要的
這一軌清楚的可聽出來相位所造成的差異
不同單體所產生的相位差
最後在聆聽位置的相位影響到聲音的定位與舞臺.....
這一張絕版了引用:
作者: 小葉
台灣找不到
我找粉久了;(;(;(;(
Absolute Phase:
A Prerequisite To Optimum Performance
The phrase absolute phase, seems to be one that is widely misunderstood. The term phase is most often used to describe the orientation of the + and - terminals of the speaker and amplifier. This relationship is more accurately defined by the termpolarity. In other words, a system whose + and - amplifier terminals are connected to the speakers' + and - input terminals, is properly connected from the standpoint of polarity, but not necessarily phase. It is true that reversing the polarity of one speaker will put that channel out of phase with the other, but the polarity is reversed. The following text will help to explain the concept more completely.
To better understand how phase and polarity are related, let us examine the very beginning of the process that brings music into our homes - the recording session. Musical instruments create sound by modulating the air, producing sound "waves." These sound waves are actually compressions and rarefactions of the air molecules. The pressure changes impinge upon our eardrums and are interpreted by our brain into the sounds we hear. A microphone, like our eardrums, senses these same pressure changes, converting them into electrical impulses which are fed to the recording equipment.
When the leading edge of a musical waveform (compression) strikes the microphone diaphragm, a positive voltage is created at the microphone output. Similarly, as the waveform passes, its trailing edge (rarefaction) produces a negative voltage output from the microphone. Simple, right? No, unfortunately. For in between the microphone and your ears lie a vast array of electrical "obstacles," each capable of skewing phase to some degree.
Ideally, after all the mixing, signal processing, mastering and cutting have been completed, that same positive output voltage from the microphone will produce a positive (forward) motion of the loudspeaker diaphragm. Often it does not, and therein lies the rub.
The making of records is a very complex process involving a bewildering quantity of electronic equipment, each possessing the potential to manipulate phase. The microphone, cables, mixing console, tape machines and the myriad of signal processors (delay, echo, reverb, equalizers, limiters etc., etc.) could each be wired out of phase with respect to one another. In addition, smaller phase errors (several degrees here and there) may occur within the electronics of any of these components. Finally, your stereo system may perform tricks of its own to further complicate the issue. Many tube preamps for instance, invert phase. Often this occurs only in the phono section, which puts the turntable out of phase with the line sources. So, after the original signal has traversed its' long and complicated path, it may arrive at your ears out of phase with the original musical event.
How do we know which orientation is correct? A trial and error approach is really the only way that we can determine proper orientation. If a phase reversal switch is not available on the preamp, one must invert phase at the amplifier or speaker terminals. In an LP-only system you might chose to reverse the leads at the rear of the phono cartridge. Remember that inverting phase at the amplifier terminals will change the phase for all sources. This may or may not be correct. For instance, if as described earlier, your preamp inverts phase of the phono section only, then swapping the phase at the speaker terminals corrects the problem for the turntable, but inverts phase for all other sources.
What happens, sonically speaking, when our system is out of phase? Most listeners experience a constricted soundstage with a pinched center-image and reduced lateral spread. In phase, the soundstage will open-up, giving a more rounded feel to the center image, and offer a more correct presentation of depth.
To test for proper phase, choose a recording with which you are quite familiar. I prefer those with simple instrumentation rather than more complex instrumentation, thus allowing the listener to concentrate on just a few instruments or voices. Listen for the characteristics outlined above as you make the switch between connections. Choose the one that sounds more correct, to your ear.
Unfortunately, every recording is different. It is possible that the first selection you play will sound best one way, while the next piece sounds better reversed. All I can say here is that you should set the phase for a few of your favorite recordings and hope that setting will be right for most your recordings.
A "trick" devised by David Fletcher of Sumiko may help you in determining whether a particular recording is out of phase. Sit a few feet in front of one of your speakers. Listen to see if you can readily hear the other speaker. If you can, the system is in-phase with the recording. If you cannot, it is out of phase. This test relies upon a phenomenon known as the Haas Effect, and seems to be somewhat dependent on the room an type of loudspeakers employed.
I have had varying results with the "Fletcher Test." Apparently, it depends rather heavily upon the recording used. The recording must be phase coherent to begin with (which usually suggests a minimalist recording technique using only a pair of microphones). Complex multi-miked affairs are likely to give ambiguous results.
Returning a system to a properly phased orientation can result in significant improvements. Experiment with the process a bit to familiarize yourself with the effects, and you will readily be able to recognize and correct an out of phase condition.
http://www.gcaudio.com/resources/how...lutephase.html
上面這篇主要是說明phase的問題到處存在 (當然phase跟polarity兩個詞不要弄混了...)
必須要用try and error的方式找....
下面我再來解釋其他的地方
Absolute Phase是個爭議，大家可試看看自己聽得出來與否 8)，要達對9題喔
(游標放上去就有聲音了)
http://www.audiocheck.net/blindtests_abspolarity.php#
這是體驗Stereo Polarity Sound Test (就是Stereohile測試的部份)
http://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_polaritycheck.php
Absolute phase
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absolute_phase
High fidelity
In the realm of high fidelity reproduction of music, absolute phase refers the phase of the reproduced sound waves relative to the original sound waves, or to the relative phase of the various channels of stereo or multi-channel reproduction. In most cases, it is actually a question of the polarity of the channels, i.e., an equal phase shift of 180° at all frequencies. Some audiophiles claim[1] that reversing the polarities of all the channels simultaneously makes a perceptible difference in the sound quality, even though the relative phases of all the channels are preserved.
某些發燒友認為即使將喇叭同時極性相反過來，本來的相對相位未變，仍然可聽出不同....
這張我或小葉備份分享你聽就好了，因為解說都在網站上，包裝幾乎啥都沒寫。8)引用:
作者: Michael99
我是幾年前在Joy Audio買的，如果沒貨也可以考慮到Stereophile網站上直接郵購啊。他們常有特惠。
其他的耳力測試
http://www.audiocheck.net/blindtests_index.php
若通不過這些測試是否能調整high End音響???
謝謝:D:D:D引用:
作者: martin
找機會買吧！
還是實體CD比較有感覺！:P:P:P
absolute phase, absolute polarity Refers to the preservation of the initial acoustic waveform all the way through the recording and reproducing system so that a compression that reaches the original microphone will be reproduced in the listener's system as a compression reaching his or her ears. Some listeners appear to be more sensitive to this being correct than others, often referring to the inverted state as "muffled."
out-of-phase In a two-channel system, one channel being in opposite polarity to the second, most commonly due to having one speaker hooked up with the red (positive) lead to the red (positive) terminal, the other with the red lead to the black (negative terminal). As well as a "phasey" sound, the result will be a reduction in low frequencies. See "phasey." Not to be confused with an inversion of Absolute Phase or Polarity.
有人聽得到，有人聽不到.....
http://www.psaudio.com/ps/how-to/how...olute-polarity
若要最龜毛，追求absolute phase, absolute polarity
就是使用喇叭極性測試，加上正向訊號，若是兩隻喇叭都是正的就OK嘍
若是兩隻喇叭都是反的也OK，但只有in Phase (Relative polarity)
但至少都不是out of phase......
請容我提醒您一下，引用:
作者: martin
好的演奏家用不同的琴的時候，會調整他們的技巧來表達他們的感覺和聲音變化。樂器只是一個工具，音樂是人創造，演奏出來的。再好的工具，也只是工具。
另外，您也知道，頻響只是能測量的規格之一。您舉的頻響例子是喇叭，擴大機，訊源，空間，還是什麼？只用頻響能完全決定一個器材的好壞嗎？這不是很標準的“以偏概全”嗎？
如果您的例子指的是一套音響在某個空間裡量出來的，上下10dB並不算太糟啊！如果在100Hz到10KHz這段上下5dB，20到20KHz正負10dB。這套系統在頻響上來說，應該算很不賴的（如果其他的測量結果也不差的話）。
3db 6db 10db ~~~~~~~
很多人說頻響平整是一個重要因素，因此我就舉了頻響來做例子，沒有其他意思。拿其他測試項目、其他數據來代換那個句子也都可以。引用:
作者: kevintran
我再舉個更淺顯的例子：對喇叭的各種測試都需要播放聲音訊號，如果各種測試用的訊號用WAV播放、用192kbps MP3播放，在聆聽位置用麥克風測量，結果會不會有哪裡不同？
如果得到的結果一樣（從目前檯面上各種測量方式來看，應該是都一樣），那麼我是不是該判定這對喇叭用WAV、用MP3聽音樂都一樣傳真？
有沒有什麼測量，可以告訴我WAV跟MP3從喇叭播出來其實是不一樣的？我想那就是一個很好的開始，起碼「測量」跟「音響是否傳真」會開始有點關係了。
阿..................有人就是這麼"無聊"做了耶.....
http://www.lincomatic.com/mp3/mp3quality.html
若是用High End的角度放大......
這個Stereophile做過啊，引用:
作者: 小葉
http://www.stereophile.com/features/308mp3cd
我是說，用喇叭播放測試訊號、用麥克風測量，能測出MP3與WAV之間的差異嗎？
或許可以試試..........
訊號本身就有這樣的差異了
在High End系統放大後會測不出來.......???
當然系統要是有基本還原能力的系統喔......
其實我們討論的還是不同切入點....呼........
以這張圖為例
使用pink noise
MP3的encoder在16K以上出現的重要的變化
CD則是一樣白色
今天系統撥出來再測
正常的系統是可以測出差異不為過的吧
http://arstechnica.com/wankerdesk/1q00/mp3/Image1.jpg
http://arstechnica.com/wankerdesk/1q00/mp3/mp3-2.html
一般人拿來測試喇叭的那些訊號。粉紅噪音、白色噪音、脈衝波等等。這些訊號用MP3、用WAV、用DSD播放，從麥克風上看起來都不會有差異。引用:
作者: 小葉
這不就說明了現行的喇叭測量方法都跟喇叭聲音是否傳真無關嗎？